Tuesday, November 6, 2012
Flowers For Algernon - Charlie's Regression G Block
Charlie Gordon participates in a scientific experiment that temporarily triples his I.Q. By the end of the story he has reverted back to his original intelligence level. Does Charlie seem to be the exact same at the end of the story as he was at the beginning? Justify your response with evidence from the text.
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1 – 200 of 246 Newer› Newest»hi
heeey.
In some ways, Charlie does seem the same in the end.But he isn't exactly the same. He remembers being smart at one point, but no matter what he does or how hard he tries, he can't go back to the amazing intelligence he once posessed. If he was exactly the same as he was before, he would have absolutely no recollection of being smart or anything that has happened in the past several months.
after the surgery charlie does seem to be the same as he was at the beginning of the story.
Well Charlie wasnt that stupid as he was at the end of the story. But from my point of view i think he is more stupid then he was before the surgrey ..
hes turning back to the same he was because algernon died
Before the surgery Charlie knew that he wasn't smart .. & wanted to be smart. After the surgery he was smart , but when the surgery began to back fire his i.q went back to the way it was before surgery. He remembers being smart. He knows he isn't anymore
Tyler, do you see any differences in Charlie?
I think that Charile is the same as he was in the beginning but since he just started to lose him smartness he still rembers what he did to help him get smart in the beginning, so now he is trying really hard to be smart again.
Not because algernon died .. Its because the surgrey did make him smart but the surgrey was temporary !!!!
after the surgerty his spelling improves and he doesnt have as much of a simplistic mind as before...yolo trololol ;-)
I agree Samara (:
Samara, what evidence do you have to prove your argument that Charlie's is less intelligent than before the surgery?
maybe if algernon didnt die charlie would still be smarter and not stupid
I do see differences in Charlie, a couple examples are that he actually remembers being smart at one point in his life. and still even though he realizes he isnt as smart as he used to be he hasnt givin up to keep trying to become smarter then he was/is
hhhhhiiiiii
juan said........
his writing look at the last part
warren you spelt surgury wrong its not surgerty!
i know
I think that Charlie is smart ... eithier way... He tryed his best to learn.. & remembers being smart. Someone that is not smart wouldn't be able to do that..
so did u tyler
Yeah he does remeber things but barely anything he remebers things of the past ( He childhood ) Just saying ...
Yeah he does remeber things but barely anything he remebers things of the past ( He childhood ) Just saying ...
Adonis- Not because Algernon dies,but because Algernon had the same surgery as he did and Charlie noticed he started mentally deteriorating.After some tests, Charlie found out that he would have the same fate as Algernon-mental deterioration.In other words, what happens to Alergnon, happens to Charlie.
Juan that doesnt even make since -_-
when's lunch???
there is not a big difference at the end
charlie could bvecome stupid just like me Y.O.L.O :)
before the surgery charlie mkakes short and grammatically in correct sentences
Tyler , you spelled Sense wrong. & I think I know what Juan is trying to say ..
adonis u spelled become wrongf
Najabi, do you think Charlie's memory of his surgery is a sign of intelligence?
Adonis i do not agree with you. just becauise algernon died it does not mean that bis was algernon fault that charile is gaving a regression. the doctor dont know y algernon died sooo yea.
juan said...
his writing
juan said...
his writing
he has the same iq in the begining and the end
I think that Charlie isn't exactly the same as he was from before and then after .. he has changed.
Olivia, what evidence can you provide to back up your argument?
adonis u spelt become wrong.
Joey,I understand why you're saying that,but there is a small difference in Charlie.He remembers the surgery.He remembers Ms.kinnian and Dr. Nemur and Dr.Strauss.He also remembers being smart,taking all those tests,and he remembers Algernon.So,there is a slight difference in Charlie.
Tyler (and everyone else) let's not pay so much attention to the spelling of everyone's messages, but to the ideas instead. Don't worry about correctly others' typos. Comment on what they're thinking please.
Samara, why do you think Charlie is less intelligent than he was at the beginning of the story? What's your evidence?
Najabi, what do you think is exactly the same about Charlie? What are your examples? Do you think there are any differences from the beginning to the end?
Joey, you said there isn't a big difference at the end. What exact differences are there? Give some examples from the story.
Hannah, how exactly do you think Charlie has changed?
Adonis, Algernon regressed and died because of the surgery that he had. Charlie had the same surgery so he is going through the same stages as Algernon did. What are the exact similarities and differences that you see between Charlie at the beginning of the story and Charlie at the end of the story?
WARREN U SPELLED WRONG WRONG
his spelling got worse
Personally, I think that Charlie isn't the same as the old Charlie. I mean, sure. He's lost most of what he learned. But, he can still write, not so good, but still. Before this expirement had began Charlie had an IQ of 68. He also thought that everyone was his friend. He couldn't understand the diference between getting laughed at and having people laugh with him.
A clue, that was always dropped ever once in a while was "it might be temporary". They had told him there was a chance it would be temporary. In the middle of the story after the operation I started to notice Charlie's grammar was inproving in the -Progress Reports-. As I read Charlie became smarter and smarter using words I had a bit trouble understanding. When he finally regresses back to the old "Charlie Gordon" his social skills have changed.
He still understands how people act and treat eachother. He now writes the way he used to with spelling mistakes and trouble with punctucation and grammar, but, he's determined to move on and try hard to regain somewhat of what he had learned.
if he wants to be smart agen he can do the sergiry agen
ok
Mrs.Sullivan , I think that Charlie before surgery didn't know what it was like to be smart.. he didn't know how it felt. After surgery he knew the feeling & even after he lost it he tryed so hard to gain it back. He was a changed person ... he knew what he once had. Before he wouldn't have knew anything.
jijijijiji
after the surgery charlie's opinion of his friends seeems very clear (troll face)
that he wasnt really that smart then he became smart because the operashun helped him a little but @ at the and he was become the same way he use to before
Zalma, do you think it's possible for Charlie to regain what he has learned? Do you think his IQ has returned to 68?
Whoever wrote " if he wants to be smart agen he can do the sergiry agen " I disagree, the surgery has been proven wrong. Just like a hypothesis, you need to test it a few times to see if it would work or not, they tested it. & it didn't work. If he did do the surgery again, it wouldn't work.
u spelled seems wrong :-)warren
In my opinion, Charlie isn't the same person he used to be.Yes he spells the way he did before but his thinking is very different. He is still aware of how people treat others who have a low I.Q.. I think the operation changed him a little bit because he didn't have flashbacks before. But he still won't give up on becoming smart.
after Charlie came back from the surgery and he wanted to go back to where he originally worked, he got his job back and than he got to see all of his friends again, actually this time his friends protected him when someone made fun as him. as if his friends felt Charlie's pain when he wasnt able to tell what was happening.
Warren, what evidence do you have to back up your argument that Charlie's "opinion of his friends was very clear"?
i agree with zalma
His social skills are the same. They were poor in the beggining. & after surgery they were the same, Just in a different way.
I also agree with Zalma (:
???? said
in the last part there is a wrong word insted of say people he write pepul
Cyanne, do you think Charlie's changed personality has any link to his intelligence?
i agree with Hannahhh
Ms.Kill, what do you think?
Aaron, please join the conversation.
i don't think charlie is exactly the same,i think that now that he know he was smart he doing thing that he never did to try to be smart such as read books. now he has a gaol on trying to get smart on his own time and not waiting for some doctors to help him.
Adding onto what Zalma said, I do think there is a difference in Charlie in the end of the story.He might not have had the choice to hold onto what he's learned due to the surgery,but even after the surgery,he knows who his real friends are, and how to read people so he can know if someone's making fun of him.He has grown,but not in the ways that were expected.He inndeed has gotten smarter.But in other ways than what everyone thought.I think he's gotten more intelligent socially,considering that he now knows the difference between laughing at someone and laughing with someone.
like after the surgery he heard at the party calling him names
gigity
if they wated longer they would have known that algenon will not stay smart and not do it on charly
so, he wont be all deprest and move away
I agree with Najabi ! 100 percent , exactly what I was trying to say.
who is ther other anonymous
Ms.Kill, I think that there's a chance he can regain his memory if he tries...at the begining he had gone to Miss Kinnian school for slow adults he had started to learn more than what people with his IQ. Umm, Im not so sure if his IQ came back to be 68, I think it might be a bit higher, not sure. xo
Hannah, I agree with you that Charlie's intellect has regressed, yet he's held on to memories of how it was to be intelligent. I like what you said, "he's a changed person."
^ I agree with Jenna (: They should have waited to see what the side effects would be, if it would work or not..... This devistated Charlie.
I agree with you jeena <3
Charlies smartness is going away for a real good reason that he didnt know, the doctors, miss kinnian, or hes friends.
Charlies bofeore used bad spelling and puncuation but after the the sergery, he stats to use good spelling and puctuantion, buty then he become the way he was before. Charlie could be afraid that he could die and people wouldnt know and they wouldnt care what happend to him whan he goes to New York
yeah who keeps leaving those weird comments anonymous
Ms.Kill, do you think that he is "smart" ?
It said in the story that algernon was the only animal to pass the the test and become smart so did they ever know why the other animals did not pass. weere they 100% sure that this will work on humans.
Olivia, yes, Charlie does show more social awareness at the end of the story than he did at the beginning. Do you think this is proof that his IQ has not regressed completely to where it was in the beginning?
his vocab improves and he doesnt have a simplistic mind anymoe
Charlie has also changed alot because of the fact that he told Ms.Kinnian to go away when she knocked on Charlie's door.
Ms.Kill, I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Can you please explain more?
Ms.Kill the evidence i have is
" All i remember is my father drunk most of the time and arguing with mom about money " He never said anything about hes parents in the story untill after the surgrey . That proves that he can only he remember hes childhood basiclly not the present .. Just saying .
hes spelling and thinking skills r the same, but he knows if ppl r making fun of hen and if ther his real frends or not
I disagree Adonis, I honestly feel like the doctors used Charlie as an expieriment they didn't care if it didn't work. & they most likely knew it probely wouldn't work anyways. They used him, because all he wanted is to be smart.... He didn't understand how it would feel .
sometimes or all the times i feel the same way as charlie dose,but people wouldnt notice or maybe thay dodnt care about how i am or feel from the inside
Adonis, you mentioned that Charlie might be afraid that he would die in NY and people wouldn't know. Do you think Charlie had similar fears at the beginning of the story? Do you think he ever thought about that type of stuff?
Ms.Kill the evidence i have is
" All i remember is my father drunk most of the time and arguing with mom about money " He never said anything about hes parents in the story untill after the surgrey . That proves that he can only he remember hes childhood basiclly not the present .. Just saying .
Ms.Kill the evidence i have is
" All i remember is my father drunk most of the time and arguing with mom about money " He never said anything about hes parents in the story untill after the surgrey . That proves that he can only he remember hes childhood basiclly not the present .. Just saying .
i think his iq lowered at the end of the story -.-
I agreee Warren
But how could they have known Algernon's intelligence would deteriorate?Algernon was the first ever thing they performed the surgery on.They were watching Algernon the same as you are.You didn't know for sure if it was temporary or not,and neither did they.Sure,they said that it might be temporary,but they still weren't sure.I'm sure if they knew for a fact that Charlie was going to mentally deteriorate,they wouldn't have performed the surgery on him and he never would have become depressed.
Samara, you're correct, it seems as though he isn't remembering things in the present. But, does he remember recent times, like how he felt when he was intelligent?
j said
i think that charlie change because at the middle of the story he was smart and the thing but it was no good by the death of Algeron but he didn`t give up so he start to get a job and then he stars to get a frined
his IQ did drop at the end of the story
him*
Warren thats what i thought ! It lowerd more than hes IQ in the beginning ! Which was 68
This story kind of makes me mad at the end .... I feel bad for Charlie. Not because he isn't smart, because in my point of view I think he's his own kind of "smart" , but because he is faced with making descions such as leaving so people wouldn't know he was "dumb" again.... He also went thru depression... & just knowing he lost something that he couldn't hold onto ..
charlie seems to understand other people my think after thje surgery like when he yells at everybody at the bar for laughing at that kid
OKAY ADONIS WHAT WRONG WITH YOU
they should had waited to see what would happend to algernon to see if its a good thing or bad thing to do it on charlie
I'm positive that his I.Q started at 68, then slowly got higher as the surgery finished. But after awhile once they found out the surgery did not work his I.Q started to regress but didnt go all the way back to 68
Ms.Kill,yes I do think this is proof that he hasn't completely regessed back to the I.Q.he had in the beginning of the story.
my life is totally destroyed in million pieces
Cyanne, what I meant was does the difference in his personality as compared from the beginning of the story to the end of the story show that he has retained any intelligence? Or has he regressed completely back to IQ 68?
Ms.Kill yes he remebered but does he remeber all that smart things he did ? Does he know how spell corecttly ?
I disagree with almost everyone, lol. I think his I.Q went up more than what he started with, even when he became " dumb " again .
wow drama is picking up i feel like i'm on facebook!!!
Adonis, do you agree with Hannah that the doctors knew that the surgery was temporary & didn't care about the outcome for Charlie?
hes iq dropped because he forgot every thing he knew before
They should have just tested it on Algernon first, to see what happens, beacsue as a result he ends up dying. & probably so will Charlie since they had the same operation. But, I guess they were like impatient and didn't want to wait, so, they tested it on Charlie. xo
yeah
lol warren .
thank you Hannah, exactly what i just said. about his I.Q not going all the way back to 68 but still lowered from what it was
Tyler i disagree .. The surgrey did work but before they started the surgrey the doctors warned him that it would slowly regress how smart he was for a peirod of time !
He didn't forget everything.
i agree with zalma they should have waited!!!!!
Najabi I think they meant that the other animals ended up dieing after the surgery. I think they just wanted to try it on a person just to see if it would work.( which it didn't) :(
Anonymous said...
j said
i think that charlie change because at the middle of the story he was smart and the thing but it was no good by the death of Algeron but he didn`t give up so he start to get a job and then he stars to get a frined
i dont really understand what ur saying in the middle of the story charlie did not have really anything he had a job where people made fun of him and u cant say he really had freinds
I think we all need to reavaluate the meaning of the word " smart "
ikr
Hannah,I agree that he hasn't completely regressed even though he's lost almost everything he's learned in the past several months.He has increased in social maturity,which he learned about when he was a genius.He doesn't seem to have forgotten about that.
& Your welcome Tyler , lol .
wheres juan????
chest
charlie should have waited a longer to see when it could hade been the perfect time ro day to get the sergery and if he really wanted it real bad because his not that smart....
he know that he wont sty smart 4 ever
Hannah, what do you mean by smart? Are you talking about social intelligence?
no tyler's wrong
They didnt care about anything ( the doctors ) Because they treated him like a stuid science project ..
Ms.Kill, I think he is still the same person but he is smarter than he was before. He remebers the past and how to read people.
no tyler is wrong
BYEEEEEEEEEEE
when charile started having his regression to me his i.q so that low like he still remebers stuff from when he was smart
jk (troll face) byeeeyeyeyeyeye
juan said
hereeee
I see what your saying Olivia, but I don't think he has lost almost everything. Before the surgery he learned things, reading, writing, spelling, etc.. after the surgery he kept that learning that was already there. & I think he still has a better understanding of what he learned long before.
I understand why some of you think they should've waited,but what if it took Algernon's whole life for him to deteriorate.They don't know that.How could they have known?
Blaaaaaaaaaah ! I dont wanna go .. LOL ! We should do this again ms , SUllivan (:
Blaaaaaaaaaah ! I dont wanna go .. LOL ! We should do this again ms , SUllivan (:
Charlie changed because he is acting weird and hes not being himself, ....CooCoo.... So my answermwould be no becaus ei do not agree he is the same from the beginning to the end..
charlie is somewhat smart "Miss Kinnian came to the door but i said go away i dont want to see you. she cried too but i wouldnt let her in because i didnt want her to laugh at me. i told her i didnt want to be smart anymore." Charlie got her to leave by saying a lie. thats smart if you ask me .
i dont think charlies the same from the opperation because hes wierd being smart and i dont like him like that, also because hes coocooo and he also acting wierd like when he had a sissy fit in the cafe and yelled at evryone.
Hi Daniel <3
hey
Junior, please provide evidence from the text to support your statement.
jimmy
he kind of stayed the same
Tomas ! :)
Not really Jimmy because at first he was throwing stuff across the room ..LOL !!!!
marcus calm yourself
ms kill i supported (:
legit jimmy either u didnt read the story or ur have amnesian
Jimmy, please provide evidence for your comment that he stayed the same.
lol tomas
lol tomas
i didnt like the story it made me cry:'(
Meek Mill , is a very important figure in my life, and he's been through many of this
Charlie changed a lot because in the beginning he let people joke around but now he doesn't want to talk to anyone and let anyone make fun of him.
Charlie started to spell the same and use simple sentences at the end of the story. Also Charlie lost memory in things he did when he was a genius like reading,and his advanced spelling
through out the story charlie has been treated disrespectfully and has been bullied. when he didnt even no he was beeing bullyed. but eventually he realized how people treated him and he is learning how to make friends.
why did algernon die but he didnt
Go Diego Go !
hey junior
LET ME FIND OUT marcus(: good job
Joe is also charlies friend now bros for life
Heys gotten smarter because he figured out a way to get ms. kinnian away by lying
because charlie is a human with more knowledge
marcus cant spell
I love you.
hmm i think charlie has a higher I.Q at the end of the story than at the begging of the story.
tomas you copied me
Charlie is still some what the same expept he can't read what he wrote in the past it's really cunfusing to him also Charlie's temper is worse because he knows that he used to be able to do this kind of stuff and know he cant read his books that he bought
No,he isn't the same as he was from the beginning of the story because he didnt understood others and his writing wasn't as good as he is now even if he started to missspell words at the end he still knew and understood what was happening and what others were saying to him.An example is where charlie told Miss Kinnian that he doesnt need her money and that he didnt like her anymore even if he still loved her and he is going to miss her he thought it would be better without her.I think charlie has changed alot though out the story before and after the surgery.
as a wise men said "well done " angel son
@Angel I did not know that...
are there after school sports
Not because Algernon dies,but because Algernon had the same surgery as he did and Charlie noticed he started mentally deteriorating.After some tests, Charlie found out that he would have the same fate as Algernon-mental deterioration.In other words, what happens to Alergnon, happens to Charlie.
No, he is not the same as in the begining of the story because in the begining of the story charlie did not know how to spell and then after the surgery he knew how to spell.Then when his I.Q was lowering he was going back to his normal intelligance but he still knew a little bit of what he learned just not as much as when he was smart.
Marcus, how did Charlie change in relation to how he thinks about his "friends"?
you are welcome :)
Lmaooo
no shes not dont be mean >:(
Charlie also is not doing well and becoming more emotion about what is going on and he is not the same because he knows what other think about him and doesn't want anyone to talk or see him.
im confused
im confused
daniel i didnt copy you
Angel, good statement... what evidence do you have to back this up?
No she is not i love ms.kill, she is the awesomest teacher ever who ever said that has a very sick mind and cant appreciate her helping us learn :(
Ms.Kill Well charlie feels that he has real friends now and its his first time feeling it
Diego, do you think that Charlie's awareness about what is going on is evidence of intelligence?
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